London Symphony Orchestra Managing Director Kathryn McDowell in conversation with Scala Radio's Mark Forrest
McDowell: "I came through a music training. And it never really occurred to me to even want to conduct an orchestra."
On International Women's Day London Symphony Orchestra Managing Director Kathryn McDowell spoke to Scala Radio's Mark Forrest about her work running one of the UK's renowned orchestras.
Listen to Mark Forrest on Scala Radio from 10am until 1pm weekdays.
Kathryn, you've been managing director of the London Symphony Orchestra for over 15 years now. Did you ever dream you find yourself in that position?
I've never dreamt of getting any job. They just seem to happen, as far as I'm concerned. The opportunity to work with the London Symphony Orchestra is something that was an absolute dream for me. I first encountered the LSO as a teenager growing up in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Watching the LSO Andre Preview's Music Night, I thought they weren't completely fantastic. I loved the music-making and the sound they produced.
When you watch an orchestra like the LSO today, you're used to seeing women as well as men playing in front of the audience. 15 years ago, when you became Managing Director, was it equally welcoming for women in administration for orchestras?
I think with the London Symphony Orchestra, they were quite late coming to the 'party' in introducing women to the orchestra. It was actually the late '70s when they took that decision. But at the point where they took the decision, they were totally wholehearted about it. They immediately welcomed women in as players within the orchestra. And there was never really any issue about women on the management side. They've always had very strong women on the management side. Although, of course, I was the first Managing Director. I think the culture of the LSO is very welcoming to that there's never been an issue on that front.
What about in the wider classical music world? I'm thinking of the conductors of old the legendary tyrannical conductors who tended to be men. It was presented as a patriarchal thing - the orchestra led by this very strong man. Has that gone away in classical music now?
I think it's changing. And I would cite even people like the late Sir Colin Davis, who was the LSO principal conductor for many years and then President until his death in 2013. He had a very different approach to music-making. It was a very collaborative approach. There was no question that he was actually very much in control of the situation. But he did it by inviting the musicians to be part of this exercise together. He was completely generous in the way that he invited their engagement in the music-making. I think that's true of many conductors nowadays. I think Sir Simon Rattle is also a very collaborative musician in that sense. And I think that does pave the way for more women to come into the role of conductor. I think we're now starting to see some really excellent young conductors coming through for whom there is no limit to their ambition or to their potential. The trailblazer was Marin Allsop on that side and we have a lot to thank her for. But there are now many younger women coming up behind her who are really making waves at the moment. And that's great to see.
It is exciting. It feels to be the piece of the classical music jigsaw that is moving slower than anything else. When you consider how long we've welcomed female soloists to the stage, conductors seem to have progressed to that level at a much slower pace. How much of that is down to 'timid' management worried about putting a woman in front of the orchestra? Worried that it will affect audiences? Worried that it will affect the orchestra itself?
I'm sure there's always a chance for management to do more. But I do think it's also about expectation.
I mean, I came through a music training. And it never really occurred to me to even want to conduct an orchestra. I conducted choirs, and I led many music projects. But it didn't occur to me to want to move into that role.
I think it's now natural for many young women to think that that is one of their options and something that they would like to do.
So, perhaps it's taken longer than it should have done. But there is no impediment now.
I think the interruption that's come with the pandemic, is also an opportunity to reset the dial a bit.
And I also feel that it's taken time for female composers to be recognized in the way that they should be. I mean, it's really outrageous to think that only 100 years ago, they were having to write under other names in order to have their works, published or performed. And I think we've seen a very significant change in that in the last 20 years. And there are some fabulous female composers who are coming through now. And there's also recognition of the older ones, who perhaps had a bit of a hard time in the last couple of decades of the 20th century.
But you know, I think the challenges now are broader. And they're to do with all the protected characteristics, not just gender. But to see that our classical music stages need to become more diverse, and our audiences could become more diverse, and more reflective of the communities in which we live.
Where do you see the LSO going after lockdown ceases?
It's challenging because our members are freelance musicians with a membership contract with the LSO. I think we could see it at very close quarters that many of them were not going to qualify for the Government's Self Employment Income Support Scheme. And we simply had to sustain their work and their incomes by some means, across the pandemic.
So we got playing again, as soon as it was possible to do so, last July (2020). And we've been playing more or less consistently since that time.
At LSO St. Luke's we've been streaming and recording at St. Luke's and when it was possible to have a very small audience, we did so.
We look forward to going back into our home at the Barbican Centre in May. That's when we hope that we can have 50% houses once again. In the last 12 months - obviously the first three months the orchestra was not playing. But since then, we've been able to play and we've continued to play and that's been so essential.
I think the spirit and the morale of the LSO is very strong. The individual members have been doing a lot online and supporting the whole digital programme. We put our Discovery Programme - the education and community programme - online. We provided resources for teachers and for families. And we've engaged internationally with a lot of our partners because none of our international touring has been possible for the last 12 months either.
If you do manage to open in May when you want to with 50% houses, how on earth are you going to pay the bills? Will you do a shorter concert and run it twice, perhaps?
Exactly that. We'll do 3.30 and 6.30 'short' concerts so that people don't have to stay around in the venue too long.
They won't need to use the facilities as much as they might otherwise do. And we want to create the safest possible environment. I think all the performing arts venues have done an excellent job in preparing for safe COVID secure environments.
And I hope that audiences will feel confident in coming back to these places. It's been in all our interests to ensure that the performing space for the musicians has been covered secure. We've tested everyone frequently.
We've had all sorts of mitigations in place. And as a result, we haven't had any incidents. And I think that's what we want to sustain for the audience's as well.
People have got used to some distancing, taking care to keep their space and think about other people. And that's what needs to happen when they start coming back into our venues again.